Discussion:
art songs - definition
(too old to reply)
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-05 14:40:26 UTC
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Our Music Festival has a category called ART songs. I know it means songs made from
poetry. BUT aren't all songs made from some sort of verse?
Your take on this problem?

Jb
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-05 15:17:42 UTC
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An art song is intended for the standard classical solo concert repertoire, as
opposed to popular, Broadway, traditional, or folk song. Of course, folk songs
may also have been arranged by classical composers (i.e., Britten, Quilter,
Brahms) and can loosely be considered art song. For a further scope on art
song, see A History of Song by Denis Stevens. The German term for art song is
Lieder, the French, melodie (with an acute accent on the first "e").

"I Dreamed a Dream" from Les Miserables (sorry, my computer program doesn't
have
accent capability) would not be considered an art song; "Dream Valley" by Roger
Quilter, text by the poet William Blake, would be. "The Sound of Silence" by
Paul Simon (simon & Garfunkel) would not be considered an art song; but The
Sound of the Horn (Le son du cor, a French melodie, by Debussy, text by Paul
Verlaine) would be. Hope this helps.

Donald Callen Freed
Our Music Festival has a category called ART songs. BUT aren't all songs
made
from some sort of verse?
Matt and Daria Roesch
2005-04-06 01:07:32 UTC
Permalink
"The Wanderer" by Dion would not be considered an art song but "The
Vagabond" by Ralph Vaughan Williams would be.
This is fun! Who has more?
Matt
Post by Choraltalk Gateway
"I Dreamed a Dream" from Les Miserables (sorry, my computer program doesn't
have
accent capability) would not be considered an art song; "Dream Valley" by Roger
Quilter, text by the poet William Blake, would be. "The Sound of Silence" by
Paul Simon (simon & Garfunkel) would not be considered an art song; but The
Sound of the Horn (Le son du cor, a French melodie, by Debussy, text by Paul
Verlaine) would be.
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-05 15:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Dear Juli;

Art Songs refer to a vocal genre developed in the 19th century first by
Schubert, then Schumann, Brahms, other Romantics, and continued on
throughout the 20th century by Hugo Wolff, Faure, Debussy and others. The
German term is 'lieder'.

An art song is not based on folk idioms, but rather newly composed material.
Quite often the accompaniment (always the piano) highlights the text and is
an integral part of the composition. Example: "Der Erlkonig" by Schubert,
'4 Serious Songs' by Brahms and 'Nuits D'Etoilles' by Debussy (excuse my
French spelling!!). Art Songs may be grouped in cycles, or exist as
individual works.

Hope this helps :-)

musically,

Stella terHart
www.oceannamusic.com
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-05 15:46:29 UTC
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JB,
My take is the difference between "art" music (classical) vs.
"commercial." (pop) The problem is that the terms are used fairly
loosely. I would suggest you contact someone with the music
festival for clarification. They just might have a different
definition.

Brian Breeding
Kerrville, TX
Post by Choraltalk Gateway
Our Music Festival has a category called ART songs. I know it means
songs made from
poetry. BUT aren't all songs made from some sort of verse?
Your take on this problem?
Jb
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-06 17:55:34 UTC
Permalink
I wouldn't bother to listen to music which means nothing to me, which
caused me to recall that I don't think I've ever felt ennobled or been
moved to tears listening to a pop song ... though I do listen
occasionaly. On the other hand, those emotions are often aroused
while enjoying "art" music. So, for me, at least, I guess the
difference is a matter of profundity. Reminds me of something Shaw
said (paraphrased) "The music one increasingly encounters in the
church today [I'm sure he's referring to "Praise Music" and shoddy
anthems] is more debilitating to the human spirit than dentist chair or
elevator music." It's certainly difficult to qualify and quantify
works of art ... someone's ox is always being gored.

Dean

Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer
Choraltalk Gateway
2005-04-07 14:36:02 UTC
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Listers:
This has been a marvelous and thought provoking discussion. It has been enjoyable to
read the responses and recognize the respect for other's opinions. I guess I might as
well weigh in on the issue as well.

I have continually fought the battle against the "Top 40" popular today/forgotten
tomorrow programming within the church and school. Yes, even within the church we
find the latest is the greatest fad. Since, to me, one of the purposes of church
music is to edify, often the "vernacular" taste is overlooked. Many times it is
catered to exclusively. I always thought that as a minister of music it was my job to
program something that everyone could relate to at least once or twice a year and
avoid pandering to any one person's idea (even mine) of what makes a worthy selection
and what does not. There are some style that I do not use because of the connotations
associate with their birth and growth within secular society, but I would not exclude
others from using them nor would I recommend them not to. I would just inform them
why I do not and let them draw their own conclusions. Though the crook on the Cross
was brought to salvation by a Christ, I would not go out and recommend we support
crucifixions as a valid method to preach the gospel. Thus, there are some styles that
I choose not to use. However, the message itself is often a final deciding factor, as
well as the age of the audience. We sing camp songs at camp and have Sunday school
for children too young to sit through or fully appreciate the level of worship within
the adult service. I wonder if we are guilty of relegating the musical growth of our
congregations to the "camp song" level when we overly program the choruses and
simplistic pop music that so many churches have embraced these days. Are we edifying
or just giving in to popular taste? Have we brought the children's Sunday School
approach to the music within the adult worship though in other content have moved the
congregation from nourishing pablum to nourishing solid food? I guess I am showing my
age in this matter.

Within the school, and within the confines of "art" music, I take much the same
approach. I remember feeling down about something one day, years ago, and hearing a
song by Air Supply on the radio. It moved me greater than I am willing to admit here.
I also remember the first time I heard Beethoven's Hallelujah Chorus from the Mount
of Olives. It lifted me up and into a realm that only music can take me to. And, I
have listened to both pieces over and over, even today. I have programmed The Rose
and Go The Distance (the last one from the cartoon Hercules) side by side with The
Last Words of David. Well, I did, but at different times within the concert. Have
never done a wholly pop concert. Have never done a totally secular or sacred
Christmas concert, except within the confines of a church service as opposed to a
church banquet.

For me, art music is music that demands all we have technically and mentally. It is
often music that is discovered as it is approached and learned. I know that is true
within my school program and many times the music the choir started out not liking
becomes their favorite piece. It is music I can program over and over without it
seeming dated. Try programming something pop from any period other than that
associated with Rock and Roll and the kids will tell if the sound is not with it
today. Often, they do not even get as far as the message. Find one they like and you
will have found a pop standard or pop song that raised the bar a bit at the time. If
you are lucky to find a great arrangement of it, you are twice blessed. There are
composers I turn to because I KNOW they will turn out a great arrangement rather than
just another 4-part clone. Yes, I do believe an art song has to have an accompaniment
that is integral to the arrangement rather than just "boom-chick" chording. It has
been crafted rather than turned out. But, to deny students the chance to perform and
be moved by a pop song is like trying to get a teenager to eat nothing but stuff that
is good for them. Shoot, even I enjoy fast food every now and then. Fact, I have just
written myself into a mood for Burger King tonight.

Bryant Christenson
Lake Havasu School District #1
LHC, AZ
bchristenson(at)havasu.k12.az.us

PS. Good night, did I just write all THAT?????????
BGM
2005-04-08 02:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Choraltalk Gateway
This has been a marvelous and thought provoking discussion. It has been enjoyable to
read the responses and recognize the respect for other's opinions. I guess I might as
well weigh in on the issue as well.
[snip an excellent post!]

Outstanding post! I agree wholeheartedly! While we may debate endlessly
about art vs. pop music, as educators (and isn't that ultimately what all
conductors are?) a balanced "diet" is the best we can do.

BGM

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