Parry 'I Was Glad' - Vivats

[Steve Doerr]

Can anyone satisfy my curiosity as to the history of the Vivat passage
in Parry's 'I was glad when they said unto me'? Modern editions give
this in the form that was used for the present Queen's coronation, but I
would like to know how it went in the original version (written for
Edward VII in 1902) and at intervening coronations.

In particular, the version given in MIDI form at
<www.classicalarchives.com/main/p.html> is significantly different to
the present-day version, but I don't know whether it is the original.
According to one account I've seen, the original words would have been
'Vivat Edwardus Septimus, vivat Alexandra Regina', but I can't fit those
words to the rhythm of the MIDI file.

If anyone has earlier editions, I would appreciate a scan of the
relevant page(s).

[Gene Harris]

Post by Steve Doerr
Can anyone satisfy my curiosity as to the history of the Vivat passage
in Parry's 'I was glad when they said unto me'? Modern editions give
this in the form that was used for the present Queen's coronation, but I
would like to know how it went in the original version (written for
Edward VII in 1902) and at intervening coronations.

I'd like someone to satisfy my curiosity on why some otherwise tasteful
people insist on performing this bombastic piece of tripe.

Sorry, grumpy today.

Gene

[oboe8']

Post by Gene Harris
I'd like someone to satisfy my curiosity on why some otherwise tasteful
people insist on performing this bombastic piece of tripe.
Sorry, grumpy today.

If you feel grumpy and sad I can think of no better piece to lift your
spirits!! If you have ever sung it or played the organ for it then
you will understand why it is performed. Indeed it may be of a 'past
age' but what's wrong with that? What else should we chuck out?

[w***@yahoo.com]

I totllay agree...that is SURELY one of the FINIEST pieces of music
I've ever sung! The double-choir section in between and the ending
always gave me goosebumps and still does, simply thinking about it!!
And the organ is glorious too on that one! Poor Gene must be the
grumpiest EVER to feel that way about it... :-)

Wil.

[Gene Harris]

Post by w***@yahoo.com
I totllay agree...that is SURELY one of the FINIEST pieces of music
I've ever sung! The double-choir section in between and the ending
always gave me goosebumps and still does, simply thinking about it!!

Do you sing anything besides late Romantic British stuff? If you want
glorious double-choir music that'll lift you ten feet high, try Gabrieli.
Or Victoria, even.

Post by w***@yahoo.com
And the organ is glorious too on that one! Poor Gene must be the
grumpiest EVER to feel that way about it... :-)
Wil.

To each his own, I suppose.

Gene

[w***@yahoo.com]

I've sung A TON of double choir music Gene...thank you! Infact the
choir I sing in now, MOSTLY sings choral music that's 8 parts or more!
I was merely saying "I was glad" was ONE of the finest I've sung and I
stick to that. Too bad you think otherwise...my hunch is that you may
have been burnt out singing it too many times, and hence the feeling.
Ask those who have not sung it or have rarely sung it...they will have
a different story to tell you, I can guarantee you that... :-)

Wil.

[Gene Harris]

Post by w***@yahoo.com
I've sung A TON of double choir music Gene...thank you! Infact the
choir I sing in now, MOSTLY sings choral music that's 8 parts or more!
I was merely saying "I was glad" was ONE of the finest I've sung and I
stick to that. Too bad you think otherwise...my hunch is that you may
have been burnt out singing it too many times, and hence the feeling.
Ask those who have not sung it or have rarely sung it...they will have
a different story to tell you, I can guarantee you that... :-)
Wil.

Well, I remember the first time I sang "I ... was ... GLAAAAAAAAd", and I
despised it from the get-go. But, enough of this. I must confess I've had
some fun chiding you guys, but I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Let's
just say Parry isn't one of my favorites, and we'll leave it at that.

I do like "I Sat Down Under His Shadow", though.

Oh, wait, that's Bairstow ...


Gene

[Gene Harris]

Post by oboe8'

Post by Gene Harris
I'd like someone to satisfy my curiosity on why some otherwise tasteful
people insist on performing this bombastic piece of tripe.
Sorry, grumpy today.

If you feel grumpy and sad I can think of no better piece to lift your
spirits!! If you have ever sung it or played the organ for it then
you will understand why it is performed.

I've sung it many times in my church choir. Most of us roll our eyes
when we find it in our music slots once again.

I can't stand most anything by C. H. H. H. H. H. H. Parry.

"I ... was ... GLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!"

Pure bombast.

We always cut the Vivats, though, praise God.

Post by oboe8'
Indeed it may be of a 'past
age' but what's wrong with that? What else should we chuck out?

Hey, nothing wrong with "past age" stuff. Gimmee Bach, Mozart,
Monteverdi, Palestrina, Handel, Josquin, Schutz, Purcell, Perotin, or a
thousand others you could name. Hell, gimmee Verdi, Brahms, Bruckner,
and Schubert (some). You can even give me Howells. Just don't give me
Parry.

Gene

[oboe8']

Post by Gene Harris
I can't stand most anything by C. H. H. H. H. H. H. Parry.
"I ... was ... GLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!"
Pure bombast.
We always cut the Vivats, though, praise God.

Post by oboe8'
Indeed it may be of a 'past
age' but what's wrong with that? What else should we chuck out?

Hey, nothing wrong with "past age" stuff. Gimmee Bach, Mozart,
Monteverdi, Palestrina, Handel, Josquin, Schutz, Purcell, Perotin, or a
thousand others you could name. Hell, gimmee Verdi, Brahms, Bruckner,
and Schubert (some). You can even give me Howells. Just don't give me
Parry.

You are MEANT to cut the vivats! I think you need a crash course in
Charles Wood, Stanford and others! LOL!

It depends on your age too and what you sang as a kid. Perhaps I am
being nostalgic for my days as a chorister. I hated Vittoria's
Responsories for Tenebrae as a boy, but now I love them. Very moving.

[Gene Harris]

Post by oboe8'
You are MEANT to cut the vivats!

Of course, but that doesn't mean I can't be grateful for small favors.

I think you need a crash course in

Post by oboe8'
Charles Wood, Stanford and others! LOL!

Done plenty of those guys, too. Been in a choir for 20+ years with an
Australian organist/director who studied in Austria and England. He's
very biased towards English composers. Most of those late 19th - early
20th century Brits I like just fine. Except Parry -- and especially "I
... was ... GLAAAAAAAAAAAAAD".

Post by oboe8'
It depends on your age too and what you sang as a kid.

Well, I'm no youngster.

Post by oboe8'
Perhaps I am
being nostalgic for my days as a chorister. I hated Vittoria's
Responsories for Tenebrae as a boy, but now I love them. Very moving.

Yeah, your tastes can certainly change, to some extent. But I've always
liked Victoria, for example, ever since doing O Magnum in high school.
Haven't done the Responses for Tenebrae, except O Vos Omnes. His Requiem
is in my all-time top five. Most other composers that I liked when I was
young, I still do like.

But Parry ... I didn't know his music as a youngster, but I'm sure I
would have hated him then, too.

In all fairness, though, I actually do like the tune "Jerusalem".

Gene

[Steve Doerr]

Post by oboe8'
You are MEANT to cut the vivats!

Who says? All it says in the score is: 'When the traditional "Vivats"
are impracticable a cut may be made...'.

I've always been disappointed that we never sing the Vivats, but our
conductor has decided that we will do them in our next concert. I'm sure
we'll be using the 1953 version, but I'm still intrigued to know what
the original version was. I also find myself wondering what the wording
and setting will be at the next coronation ('Vivant Carolus et Camilla'?)!

[oboe8']

On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:23:52 GMT, Steve Doerr

Post by Steve Doerr

Post by oboe8'
You are MEANT to cut the vivats!

Who says? All it says in the score is: 'When the traditional "Vivats"
are impracticable a cut may be made...'.
I've always been disappointed that we never sing the Vivats, but our
conductor has decided that we will do them in our next concert. I'm sure
we'll be using the 1953 version, but I'm still intrigued to know what
the original version was. I also find myself wondering what the wording
and setting will be at the next coronation ('Vivant Carolus et Camilla'?)!
--
Steve

I was thinking of liturgical use.

[Gene Harris]

Post by oboe8'
On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:23:52 GMT, Steve Doerr

Post by Steve Doerr

Post by oboe8'
You are MEANT to cut the vivats!

Who says? All it says in the score is: 'When the traditional "Vivats"
are impracticable a cut may be made...'.

<snip>

Post by oboe8'
I was thinking of liturgical use.

I was under the impression that "impracticable" would mean whenever
you're not crowning a new monarch, i.e., just about every time you sing
the thing.

But I'm an American -- what do I know?

Gene

[Gerald Place]

People here in the UK do occasionally use the vivats with Latin text
appropriate to the occasion (I think the Royal Hospital choir salute their
old soldiers in this way) but mostly they are omitted as suggested. Anyone
after the version Parry first wrote might try the Novello Uniprint service.

Gerald Place

Post by Gene Harris

Post by oboe8'
On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:23:52 GMT, Steve Doerr

Post by Steve Doerr

Post by oboe8'
You are MEANT to cut the vivats!

Who says? All it says in the score is: 'When the traditional "Vivats"
are impracticable a cut may be made...'.

<snip>

Post by oboe8'
I was thinking of liturgical use.

I was under the impression that "impracticable" would mean whenever
you're not crowning a new monarch, i.e., just about every time you sing
the thing.
But I'm an American -- what do I know?
Gene

[m***@gmail.com]

At his enthronement years ago, the new Bishop of Blackburn (a diocese
in the north-west of England) had the choir sing "Vivat Robertus
Blackburniensis". It was regarding by the cathedral choir at the time
as in "bad taste".

Graham

[Steve Doerr]

Post by Gerald Place
People here in the UK do occasionally use the vivats with Latin text
appropriate to the occasion (I think the Royal Hospital choir salute their
old soldiers in this way) but mostly they are omitted as suggested. Anyone
after the version Parry first wrote might try the Novello Uniprint service.

Thank you. I don't actually know what that is or how to access it - can
you fill me in?

In any case, I've now satisfied my curiosity by buying a copy of the
original order of service (with music) for the 1902 Coronation. (Several
examples on abebooks.com.)

The original words were 'Vivat Regina Alexandra! vivat Regina Alexandra!
vivat! vivat! vivat! ... Vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat!
vivat! vivat! Vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat! vivat!
vivat! vivat!'

Interesting that the Queen was acclaimed before the King.

It's also interesting to see the original introduction to the anthem:
the present one was apparently substituted at the next Coronation.

[Gerald Place]

for reference Novello & Co Ltd can be contacted on ***@musicsales.co.uk.
They are one of two major UK publishers of church music.

Post by Steve Doerr

Post by Gerald Place
People here in the UK do occasionally use the vivats with Latin text
appropriate to the occasion (I think the Royal Hospital choir salute their
old soldiers in this way) but mostly they are omitted as suggested. Anyone
after the version Parry first wrote might try the Novello Uniprint service.

Thank you. I don't actually know what that is or how to access it - can
you fill me in?
In any case, I've now satisfied my curiosity by buying a copy of the
original order of service (with music) for the 1902 Coronation. (Several
examples on abebooks.com.)
The original words were 'Vivat Regina Alexandra! vivat Regina Alexandra!
vivat! vivat! vivat! ... Vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat!
vivat! vivat! Vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat Rex Edwardus! vivat! vivat!
vivat! vivat!'
Interesting that the Queen was acclaimed before the King.
the present one was apparently substituted at the next Coronation.
--
Steve